Why is Belief in Christ Necessary?

January 8, 2009 at 11:00 am 19 comments

Of the dogmas of Christianity to which I most object is the one that requires belief in order to be saved.  This seems perverse.  God supposedly made himself as man in order to suffer a brutal death for the purpose of saving mankind from the effects of sin.  He did this because he loves us.  However, after suffering and dying he is now going to require us to hold particular beliefs before salvation can be enjoyed?

The problem is that the beliefs cannot be verified.  There is no direct evidence for these beliefs.  It’s all hearsay, and nonsensical, to boot.

It would be one thing if everyone was given evidence for the Jesus story before being asked, “do you believe this?”  It is another to be given no evidence.  The question of whether I believe in Christ as God, and whether I accept his crucifixion for my sins is like asking whether I am willing to lie in order to receive God’s saving grace.

It would be a lie for me to say, “Yes, this all makes sense and I accept God’s sacrifice thankfully.”  The truth is, none of it makes sense.  Is it better for me to lie and be saved or to tell the truth and be damned?  I prefer the truth and I believe God would prefer it that way, too.

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Bible Contradictions Why is Belief in Christ Necessary? (part 2)

19 Comments Add your own

  • 1. scaryreasoner  |  January 8, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    And anyway, if you lied, God, being supposedly omniscient, would not be fooled for a millisecond, and would in fact, have known beforehand that you would lie.

    This is one (of many, many) reasons that Pascal’s wager is idiotic to its core.

    I remember one comedian (I forget which one) who talked about God “monitoring for Jesus belief.” The situation he described involved a person uncertain as to the truth of Christianity. On some days, he was pretty certain, on other days, very doubtful. From day to day, from week to week, he might believe or disbelieve. So, presumably, God was monitoring this person for “jesus belief.” If, on the day this person died, it happened to be a day that he believed — Heaven. Otherwise, Hell.

    If you strip away the ceremonial bullshit, it becomes an obvious scam:

    Here’s a bunch of stories. One of the stories is that if you don’t believe the stories to be true, you are to be tormented forever — after you’re dead. So, you’d better believe the stories, eh?

    Clearly, that line of thinking, and thus Christianity, is insane.

    Reply
  • 2. diestheswan  |  January 8, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    it’s odd to think that my thoughts can be seen on a strangers page from the strangers mind.

    funny i should cross it tonight too because i have spent the day researching topics and views about just this.

    i enjoyed i did.

    Reply
  • 3. p4cs  |  January 8, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    Thanks for your honesty and transparency. You are absolutely right about belief (having faith in something), the Bible says that, “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1)

    Blessings,
    David Zook

    Reply
  • 4. Dale  |  January 9, 2009 at 6:16 am

    No man can give you the answer or proof that you are looking for. This is a matter of belief and faith. Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. It is with your heart that you believe and are justified. God has given each of us a measure of faith and what we do with that faith is up to us. God has given us the gift of a free will and we must use it to make our choices in this life. In this case, it is to accept or reject the truth. In God, we must walk by faith. Faith in Him and faith in the truth He has given us in His word about Jesus. We are saved by grace through faith. Now, faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. Without faith it is impossible to please God. My hope for you is that you will find a good version of the bible and a good concordance and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into the truth/proof you are searching for. He is the only one who can lead you. May God bless you on your journey. Dale

    Reply
  • 5. Jeremiah  |  January 9, 2009 at 6:44 am

    I agree with Dale. You know, belief IS essential in salvation. If you do not believe that Christ died, and arose from the grave, you cannot recieve salvation. John 3:16-For God so loved the World that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVES in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. If you have any questions about salvation PLEASE email me at band@nailedband.tk

    Reply
  • 6. Thaddeus Dombrowski  |  January 9, 2009 at 7:28 am

    Dale,

    I am trying to understand what you are saying. You said, “…faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.” You also said, “God has given each of us a measure of faith…” Which comes first, the faith or the message? What I mean is that if I have to hear the message in order to have faith, then the message comes first. In this case, faith comes because the message makes sense. But, if God first gives each of us a measure of faith, then faith precedes the message. The message cannot be verified, but when I hear it I will believe because God gave me the faith to accept it at face value.

    Now, you also said, “God has given us the gift of a free will and we must use it to make our choices in this life. In this case, it is to accept or reject the truth.” But, this is the sticking point. How can I verify that Jesus’ message is true if I can’t verify any of it? I can turn your phrase without essentially changing the meaning by saying that God gives us free will to accept or reject falsehoods. Hopefully, we accept the truth and reject the falsehoods. But, again, without the ability to verify the message, we cannot do either. We have to put those statements into the ‘I don’t know’ bucket.

    So this is what it boils down to. “No man can give [me] the answer or proof that [I am] looking for.” But, “God has given [me] the gift of a free will and [I] must use it to make our choices in this life. In this case, it is to accept or reject the truth.”

    God gave me my mind (assuming He exists), and it operates well when using reason on a set of known premises. That is the means by which any person can make rational choices. There is nothing rational about accepting at face value statements which cannot be verified. How to decide when my capacity for faith collides with my ability to reason? I would assume you would suggest choosing faith and shutting off reason, eh? But, then, I have just shut off my ability to accept or reject truth and falsehoods.

    Reply
  • 7. Jeremiah  |  January 10, 2009 at 7:24 am

    Thaddeus, once you have heard the Gospel, you have a choice, either put my faith in Christ, or to reject Him. And if I read this correctly(which I might not have) you’re asking if you should put your faith in something you see isn’t reasonable, and throw out reason. Well, the belief in God IS reasonable, we couldn’t have just happened by random chance. Look at the sun, we’re in the PERFECT spot from the sun, if we were a little closer, we’d burn up, a little farther away, and we’d freeze to death. And what about the amino acids that give rise to our enzymes that are essential to live? Science has shown that random chance couldn’t create the amino acids. Here’s a few scenario’s to think about. Say I take metal, and springs out of a junkyard, and put it in a box, then I shake it. I shake it for days, weeks, months, and eventually several years, and a watch comes out. Does that sound reasonable to you? If not, then think, how could our eyes, which see in 3D, and color, or our brain, with 120 billion cells, and 130 trillion electronic chemical connections come out of random chance? And one more for right now, evolution says existance came from a big BANG! Now think, is THAT resonable? How come big BANGS always end in the opposite of creation, destruction. If the universe was created with a BANG, then big BANGS ought to still cause creation, and not destruction.
    It’s actually illogical, and unreasonable to think there isn’t a God.

    Reply
  • 8. Jeremiah  |  January 10, 2009 at 7:41 am

    And now that that is settled, I must show you about Christ being the true God. I’ve heard questions like that. Think, Christ claimed to be God on Earth, and and proved it through His ressurection. How do I know the Bible’s true? There is a TON of evidence supporting the Bible. History shows evidence, there is more of the original texts of the Bible, than ANY other book in history, there are 24,000 ancient texts. The Bible has alot of external evidence, there were 17 secular historians that wrote about Christ’ crucifixion, and historical documents show over 500 people witnessing Christ alive AFTER His death. The Bible describes the rise, and fall of great empires, such as Greece, and Rome(Daniel 2:39-40), and great major cities, such as Sidon, and Tyre(Isaiah 23) The accuracy of the Bible has been proven through much evidence. And archeology has found over 25,000 finds tosupport events in the Bible, NONE have contradicted the Bible once. And science shows the history of the Bible. Science back when it was written said the Earth was flat, while the Bible says it is a sphere, now science proves the Bible. Science then said the Earth sat on the back of an animal, the Bible says God holds it on it’s axis, now science confirms the Bible. Science used to say the ocean floor was flat, the Bible says it has canyons, and mountains, not science confirms the Bible. That is a FEW of the scientific evidence.

    Reply
  • 9. Jeremiah  |  January 10, 2009 at 7:55 am

    Those evidences are good enough to prove the Bible’s truth, but it doesn’t even COMPARE with the evidence of fulfilled prophesy. the Bible is the ONLY book that has a ton of prophesies, and record of them ALL being fulfilled. The Koran has one prophesy of Mohammed returning to Mecca, but he could easily fulfill that on his own. tHe Bible however. There are over 2,000 prophesies fulfilled in the Old Testament alone. Isaiah 7:14 says a virgin will concieve by the Holy Spirit, a Son named Jesus. The fulfillment is is Matthew 1:18-25.. Psalm 16:10 says the Messiah will arise from the dead, and is fulfilles in Acts 2:31. Psalm 22:6-8 says Christ will be mocked before His death, fulfilled in Matthew 27:29. The Bile has been proven true.

    Reply
  • 10. Jeremiah  |  January 10, 2009 at 8:11 am

    The Bible also says For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God(Romans 3:23), and the wages of sin is death(Romans 6:23)(a) but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord(b). If you are in a court for breaking the law, and were foun guilty, a righteous judge must give you a penalty sentence, or he would be a corrupt judge. God is the same way, He is our judge. Now let me ask you this, have you kept the 10 Commandments perfectly? The 10 commandments say Have no other gods before me. Have you put something over God? They also say Thou shalt not lie. Have you ever lied(little, white, exageration, etc)? They say Thou shalt not steal. Have you ever stolen anything, irrespective of value? Thou shalt not commit adultery. In other words, unfaithful to your spouse. The Bible says that if any man looks upon a woman with lust, he has commited adultery in his heart. Have you ever looked at a person of the other gender, and wanted to sleep with them? that’s adultery in the heart. Thou shalt not murder. Now you may say “Hey, I’ve never killed anyone!” Well, the Bile says if a man hates another man in his heart, he commits murder in the heart. Have you kept the Sabbeth Day(Sunday) holy as the commandments command? If you’ve broken a single one of these, you’ve broken God’s law. Now, if He is righteous, He must punish you. But like in an Earthly court, someone can pay your fine, and get you out of prison. God sent His Son Jesus to die on the cross for you, so that instead of Hell, which the Bible says is a place of everlasting torment, and agony, you can go to Heaven, where it is paradise if you’ll just realize your sins, turn from them, and ask Jesus to forgive them, and be your savior. Now, the choice is YOURS, will you accept Christ as your savior, and ask Him into your heart? Or will you reject Him, and take your chances with Hell?

    Reply
  • 11. Thaddeus Dombrowski  |  January 10, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Jeremiah,

    I can see that you are a student of creation science. I am sure we can argue this until we are both blue in the face. But, I want to take exception to a few statements that you made in comment #7. You said, “we couldn’t have just happened by random chance.” No. You are correct. But, we could happen as the result of uncountable random chances. Science isn’t claiming that we started out as humans. It is claiming we started out as some sort of amino acid soup. Yes, we are in the perfect spot from the sun. And there are how many billions of suns in our galaxy? And how many billions of galaxies? How many planets were tried out in the grand experiment known as our universe? How many failed?

    If you see us as predestined, it is easy to delude yourself into thinking we were somehow placed in just the perfect spot. But, if you look at all the failed experiments, and not just the one that produced life on this planet, you might begin to see things differently.

    Consider your big bang argument. If a big bang happens in a city, you get a lot of destruction. But, if the big bang happens in nothing, then something IS created, because there was nothing before the bang. You can understand a lot by analogy. But, analogies only take you so far.

    Reply
  • 12. Thaddeus Dombrowski  |  January 10, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Regarding comment #8, you said, “archeology has found over 25,000 finds tosupport events in the Bible, NONE have contradicted the Bible once.” Are you sniffing glue? Archeology has contradicted many aspects of the bible. You can one story about that at http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jun/03/local/me-36899http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jun/03/local/me-36899

    Most of the people I know are believers, and a good portion of them like to read about science with a bible-filter on. If it corroborates the bible, it gets stored in the brain, but if it contradicts the bible it gets filtered out. Start reading science for the sake of science and not for the sake of the bible. You might start finding some evidence that contradicts your earlier beliefs.

    Did science ever say the earth was flat??? Or did people say that. It was science that proved the earth is a sphere. Science is often wrong, but when it is wrong, it is discovered to be wrong by newer science. New evidence that contradicts earlier theories. Science never said the earth was on the back of an animal. You need to stop attributing ancient beliefs to science.

    Reply
  • 13. Thaddeus Dombrowski  |  January 10, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Regarding comment #9: Given that the bible was written after the events took place, of course the prophesies were corroborated. The authors of the bible intended to show the prophesies were fulfilled. I don’t find any of that to be impressive.

    “Isaiah 7:14 says a virgin will conceive by the Holy Spirit.” How do we know he wasn’t talking about the Egyptian God Horace, who was also said to be born of a virgin. There are actually quite a few gods with remarkably similar stories. See http://englishatheist.org/indexd.shtml or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus#Other_miraculous_births

    Reply
  • 14. Thaddeus Dombrowski  |  January 10, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Regarding comment #10, “The Bible also says For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God(Romans 3:23), and the wages of sin is death(Romans 6:23)(a) but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord(b).” This will be the subject of my next blog post. Right now it is late though, so it will have to wait. Stay tuned.

    Reply
  • 15. Thaddeus Dombrowski  |  January 10, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    Jeremiah,

    Thanks, by the way for all of your comments. I appreciate you taking the time to argue your point of view.

    Reply
  • 16. Jeremiah  |  January 11, 2009 at 12:07 am

    #12, the link you gave me shows that there is NO evidence supporting the story of Moses, well, I don’t know where he got his info from, because there IS evidence of that story in the Bible. There are 10 videos on Godtube showing it.Here’s the link to the first one:
    http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=d32b3ae68e9e112c8ea5
    From there you can find the others on the side of the page. If you’re willing to seek God, please watch these videos.

    Reply
  • 17. Jeremiah  |  January 11, 2009 at 12:15 am

    #11, Thaddeus, think, does it REALLY make sense that something could come from NOTHING. And as for your question about all of the planets, if you read Genesis 1:1 it says In the beginning God created the Heavens, and the Earth. God had a purpose for Earth. No other planet has the things we need to live. Oxygen, food source, water source, etc. If we randomly evolved, why would ONE planet be the only place for life? If random chance made one, why not the rest? There MUST have been an intelligent purpose.

    Reply
  • 18. Jeremiah  |  January 11, 2009 at 12:16 am

    #12, yes science DID say that, but the Bible said that LONG before science. Science then confirmed the Bible as truth.

    Reply
  • 19. Jeremiah  |  January 11, 2009 at 12:19 am

    #13, well, even if other gods CLAIM to be born of a virgin, how many of them proved they were god by rising from the grave? Only Jesus did. John 14:6 says Jesus saith unto them, I am the Way, the Trth, and the Life, NO man cometh unto the Father(God) but by Me. Thaddeus, if you want, you can emial me at band@nailedband.tk

    Reply

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